• Home
• T222 Fatima
  • Overview
  • Gallery
  • Prices & Auction Results
  • Checklist
• T204 Ramly
  • Overview
  • Gallery
• T207 Brown Background
  • Overview
  • Gallery
• T205 Gold Border
•  T3 Turkey Red 
• Non-sports
  • N124 Presidential Possibilities
  • N127 Sea Captains
  • N288 Police & Fire Chiefs
  • N283 Defenders and Offenders
• Wantlist
• Links

T204 Ramly Overview

Last revised on June 6, 2008

T204's (or, "Ramlys") were issued in 1909 by the Mentor Co. of Boston with their Ramly and T.T.T. Turkish cigarettes. The cards display photographic portraits surrounded by a filigree-like gold design that was probably meant to look 'Turkish'. They're also embossed, meaning some of the card surface is raised. Although most card collectors don't actively pursue T204's because of their scarcity and prices, they're widely known and admired throughout the hobby.

The Players

There are 121 cards in the set, with a good representative overview of major league players in 1909. 15 players were later inducted into the Hall of Fame, including Johnson, Plank, Burkett, Keeler, Tinker, Evers, Chance and 8 others. Notables like Mathewson, Cobb, Young, Lajoie, Walsh, and Crawford were unfortunately omitted. None of the 121 cards is noticeably scarcer than any of the others, but a few like Pelty (the only Jewish players in the set) and Cicotte (famed for his Black Sox participation) are in greater demand than other commons.

There are 4 non-players included in T204: Frank Bancroft, Cincinnati manager in 1902; Tim Murnane, a prominent Boston baseball promoter and President of the N.E. League; Jimmy McAleer, manager of the Browns; and Clark Griffith, Cincinnati's manager in 1909 and a future HOFer. Murnane likely got in because of his New England connection, while Griffith and McAleer were popular figures of the day. Bancroft is an oddity, but there's a good explanation for his inclusion - see the info below on the Worcester angle for square-bordered cards.

The Teams

13 of the 16 major league teams are represented; Pittsburgh, Philadelphia NL, and Chicago AL have no players. The two Boston teams are, not surprisingly, the best represented - they have a combined 23 players (19%) of the total.

The Photos

Photos used for the T204 set were taken at the Carl Horner Studios in downtown Boston, sometimes several seasons prior to 1909. Horner was the de facto 'official' photographer for major league baseball for more than a decade and his photographs were used in in many sets of the same era. One of his most famous photographs is of Eddie Plank, the same one used in T206.

The April 2007 Mastro Auction contained more than 40 Horner cabinets, several showing the same photos used for T204 cards. The cabinets demonstrate that, in some cases, T204 photos were altered to remove team designations from the uniforms. Here are the cabinets and corresponding cards for several players: Arrelanes, Bowerman, Bresnahan, Donahue, Jones, Kleinow, Niles, Sweeney, Lush, Konetchy, Sheckard.

A few cards have an image of a different player than intended.

• Roy Hartzell is actually Topsy Hartsel.
• Bill O'Hara is actually Tom O'Hara.
• The images of Harry Howell and Jack Powell are reversed.

Tobacco staining could sometimes lead to unfortunate results: Wid Conroy, T204 brown-noser.

T.T.T. Brand

T204's can also be found with a T.T.T. advertising back. Copies of these cards are much scarcer than those with the Ramly back. Only about half of the players have been found with a T.T.T. back, so it's unlikely that a full set is possible.

Square Bordered cards

There are 6 blank-backed square-bordered Ramly cards in addition to the regular set that were likely either proofs or some type of promotional issue. They are exceptionally rare and can be roughly estimated at 10 times the value of "normal" Ramlys. The six shown are Anderson, Bancroft, Bransfield, Burkett, Dinneen, and Moran. Along with Howard (sometimes mistakenly cited as having a square border card), these are the only players in the set that have their first names on their cards.

All six had a connection with Worcester, MA where the factory was that issued the cards, and this is probably why they were included in the square-border group. Bancroft, Bransfield, and Moran were born close by, Burkett managed the Worcester team, Dinneen played for several years in Boston, and Anderson was a native Worcester-ite.

Values

After holding steady for several years, T204's sharply escalated in value in 2007, but are now coming back down. Depending on their condition, commons generally sell for $100 to $700 and HOFers for $300-2500. Keeler, Burkett, Plank and especially Johnson all command significant premiums.

Other T204 Info

Classic Baseball Cards : The Golden Years, 1886-1956 by Frank Slocum, published in 1990, has beautiful, full color pictures of the entire T204 set and many others. This book is out of print, but used copies can be found on eBay and Amazon.

Some T204's also exist with blank backs and are often incorrectly referred to as "proofs" (they're actually printing mistakes). These are also scarce, but the prices are usually not much higher than for other T204's.

16 player names (13% of the set) in T204 are misspelled : Arrelanes (should be Arellanes), Kleinon (Kleinow), Hoblitzell (Hoblitzel), O'Hare (O'Hara), Kargar (Karger), Unclane (Unglaub), Dineen (Dinneen), Stienfeldt (Steinfeldt), Elberfield (Elberfeld), Schekard (Sheckard), Ruelbach (Reulbach), Nichols (Nicholls), Hummell (Hummel), Loebert (Lobert), Konetchey (Konetchy), and Cicolte (Cicotte).

© Copyright 2002-2008 by Bill Cornell